Topic: pouring bismuth (Read 1658 times)

JackJ · « **on:** March 31, 2009, 07:59:44 AM »

Rocks (or pebbles) really isnt a bad idea.

When it gets to be illegal here to use lead, I will just switch more over to painted brass. I use them now on my larger weights anyway.

I think Bismuth/Tin will be used a lot more in the future but right now its about 15-20 times the cost of lead, and of course the size of the weight would be a little larger due to density.

Gman if you want to pour some out of bismuth I found a source that has somewhat decent prices. Ive only seen a few other jig makers using it, so you could be one of the first.

GMAN · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:10:29 AM »

I dont know if my melter will run bismuth. How much is it?

Just4fun · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:11:34 AM »

FYI,..Home Depot and those kind of stores have heat-shrink tubing in the electronics dept. I've also gotten it from Radio-Shack,..it's pretty common stuff and handy to have whenever you need to solder a few wires together!

Gman,..I believe that the tungsten is formed by a sintering process (heat plus pressure). As was said,..it's melting point is too high to just cast it and it's too hard & brittle to machine it conventionally..

Just4fun · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:27:07 AM »

You wouldn't use straight bismuth,...what's usually used is tin-bismuth alloy,..or you could use straight tin,..but that's a little lighter still! One drawback,..I know that the tin-bismuth melts too low for powder coating,..I'll have to check on the straight tin though!

ps: The larger size is not necessarily a drawback,...especially for jigs!
Essentially, it would allow you to cast a heavier weight,..that will weigh less underwater, so it will still sink slower!

pps: The current price on tin-bismuth is expected to come down significantly as the use and demand for it increases in the world!

E_Bassfisher · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:43:09 AM »

Quote from: Buzzbait on March 30, 2009, 06:18:06 PM

I'm gonna drill holes in rocks and use them. (boing!) PP's True-camo worm weight system, lol. I'll check those links out in the very near future E. Thanks for posting those as I will soon have to obtain some i'm sure.

there was something in a recent bassmaster mag about a company doing that. i'll try to find it to post

GMAN · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 09:38:19 AM »

well I do believe I can pour bismuth/tin alloy

I can go with a low

281-338 58/42 15.95

low 281 40/60 17.30

Then whatever shipping is.

Any one know the melting point? To be able to powder paint the melting point needs to be above 400 degress. I powder paint at approx 325-350. I could go 250-300 but I do not know the durability of the paint curing at that temp.

JackJ · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2009, 09:42:25 AM »

Those numbers are the melting points...

281-338 is the melting point for the first
and 281 for the second

JackJ · « **Reply #7 on:** March 31, 2009, 09:45:45 AM »

You will probably need to find some bismuth that doesnt have as much tin for the powder coatings.

JackJ · « **Reply #8 on:** March 31, 2009, 09:55:16 AM »

Cadmium has a melting point of 610°, and is actually a little cheaper than the bismuth. $19 for 2lbs. but its not as dense.

JackJ · « **Reply #9 on:** March 31, 2009, 09:58:21 AM »

http://www.rotometals.com/Bismuth-s/4.htm

That pure Bismuth has a melting point of 520°. I think it would work for your powder coatings.

GMAN · « **Reply #10 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:05:12 AM »

cadmium has poisenous fumes. Cant mold it. Worse then lead from what I'm told.

Pure bismuth would be too brittle unfortunately. It needs to be alloyed with tin or something else non toxic. Tin is really about the only feasible option. Let me do some more research on powder paint.

GMAN · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:10:49 AM »

I should be able to pp them. I found this on csi coatings site.

"Lures with weed guards should be cured at 250 degrees F for 25 minutes. Always open the eye of the hook with a sharp object before curing."

So I think it will work.

JackJ · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:13:36 AM »

Cool. so you going to try some?

Unfortunately none of my suppliers have Bismuth or I would get you some good deals.

GMAN · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:35:42 AM »

I'm really considering it.

Think I could sell enough to atleast break even on this trial run? I'd order 2lbs of it to try.

JackJ · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:39:07 PM »

Dont know.

If your going to buy it to sell them you might want to get more and see if you can get a discount.

Just4fun · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:48:01 PM »

As was said,..you cannot use pure bismuth. It is not much of a metal mechanically speaking,...soft & brittle. It also expands as it cools so I think it could F-up your molds because of that!

You get all the strength-properties of the alloys from the tin....
If you use pure tin, it melts around 450F, which would be fine for the powder coating...
Pure Tin is 63% the weight of lead,...so your 1/2-ounce size jigheads would weight about 5/16 in tin,....and the 3/4-ounce size would weight just under 1/2 in tin. (assuming my math is correct...

)

(I believe the 60/40 tin-bismuth alloy is 76% the weight of lead.)

Just4fun · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:00:37 PM »

Don't know what the alloy goes for,..but pure tin is about $11 per pound shipped! or about $.35 per 1/2 ounce jighead ( 3/4 ounce lead size..)

Tin ingots

GMAN · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:08:16 PM »

do you guys think it would sell a few with the bigger size equal weight. I think I'm going to do a sample run and see how it goes.

PS, J4f, you might be backwards on the 60/40. 60% Bismouth. 40 on the tin. I dont know which you calculated off of though. The stuff I'd get is 58/42 bis/tin. So it would be around 80-85% maybe?

Just4fun · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:49:36 PM »

I didn't actually calculate those lead-weight-percentages myself,..I was going off what someone had told me a while back,..my calculations now say that your 58/42 alloy should be around 77% of the lead-weight.

ps: Any of these alloys or pure tin will mix with, and be very compatible with, any residual lead that's in your pot or anywhere so you wouldn't have to worry about trying this, then going back to lead afterward!

Jig Man · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:54:30 PM »

Where does babbit fit into this mix? I got some a while back and made some jigging spoons. It wouldn't pour in my pot and I had to melt and ladle it into the mold. The spoons are still shiny after 5 years.

GMAN · « **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:16:25 PM »

Well J4F, your alot smarter then me so I'll agree with you. You know more about it then i ever will.

I think I'm going to try it and see what happens. Whats about 30-40 dollars right

Jigman, I'm not real familiar with babbit.

JackJ · « **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:16:39 PM »

What grade was it JM?

Most babbitt I have seen still contains about 70% lead.

GMAN · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:21:10 PM »

I see that now.

Could be one of any variation of Copper, tin, lead, antimony that I can find. Many different types.

Jig Man · « **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:08:54 PM »

Grade ?? I don't think it got beyond 3rd or 4th since it couldn't write in cursive and could only print.

Jack all I know is I traded a guy a snowmobile suite for about 10# of it because my lead spoons kept tarnishing.

JackJ · « **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2009, 04:14:09 PM »

This page gives you a general idea of what it goes per lb. and some of the types.

http://www.rotometals.com/Babbit-Bearing-Alloys-s/2.htm

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